Why does this matter? If the team is leaving the ACHA, just don’t respond to them and move on with the CHF.
Also, maybe if the teams are released by the CHF more will follow? Would help with some team schedules, mostly if the as a see from your post the ACHA doesn’t feel the same with schuedling inter CHF/ACHA games
Coach …we’ll have to agree to not agree…There are internal reasons for teams and conferences to not announce yet. We think it matters to the teams affected. The scheduling issues in a situation like this are a given due to the large scale change and ambiguity of final destination for teams or programs. Most of the conferences involved (leaving or staying) have known for some time there was potential change on the horizon. Hopefully they were proactive and thoughtful in their plans. We are working on a commonality idea that we hope the ACHA will consider , at least for the short transition term. If not …that’s their prerogative to not allow teams to maintain their rivalries/relationships.
Unless something has changed, I can confirm that the Colonial is staying in the ACHA as of June 18th, 2019.
May want to double check there bud
I am a member of the colonial league, and as a league we unanimously voted to stay in the ACHA for the 2019-2020 season. This was decided on June 18th. Just passing along facts.
It seems the D3 teams (East) are leaving and the D2 teams are staying for the most part? I think the idea of schools with multiple teams doing both organizations (I know 3 of them for sure) is a great idea as they can “test” the waters with the unknown organization with the lower team. Definitely interesting to see how it all plays out
CHF losing teams by the day.
Maybe they should stop trolling the ACHA on Twitter and worry about USAH insurances and their 32 team National Tournament. 
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Hey all…Love the message board spin…just like the old 101 days…Chiz check your sources or whatever ACHA contact you have. CHF will roll on this season, despite what hurdles get placed in its path. Still not sure what the final team total will be but the numbers continues to climb. If anyone has any questions just shout I’ll answer as best I can!!
Saw the ACCHL posted this on twitter in response to a CHF tweet, “The July 12 deadline can not be binding as schools are not in session & (for player run teams) they won’t be back on campus until August”. I can agree with that but there seems like there will be lots of scrambling around for both CHF & ACHA teams. Teams will be caught by surprise and may want to change something’s because of the ACHA & CHF relationship. You keep saying you’re doing this for the players but if a university decides to stay in the ACHA and teams around them surprise them by leaving, they may lose some status in the ACHA. For example if the ACHA does not include games versus CHF towards rankings, a team might not have enough games. Thus, ruining the a chance at regionals/rankings/ or a conference championship. I guess I’m just playing devils advocate here. I’ll just say can we at least confirm some teams? I’ll take a stab at the CHF lineup:
Most or all M2 ACCHL teams
Most or all DVCHC M2 & M3 teams
All Empire M3
All MET M3
Some CHE M3
Some CSCHL M2
Some Indy teams? Pittsburgh? Kentucky?
Also probably add some Eccha M3 teams too, and maybe one or 2 M1 teams?
I have some questions about sponsorships and fundraising. It sounds like fundraising is the key to the CHF being able to lower costs, but the progress tracker in the CHF overview posted above says that sponsorships and fundraising are one of the least developed aspects of the plan.
What sort of sponsorships can we expect and when? How much funding are you anticipating? What will the sponsors get out of the relationship?
Thanks!
Will supply some facts from a Division II prospective. First, whatever teams are moving are primarily Division III teams. The following DII conferences are not moving; Colonial, Super East, MACH, Northeast, Tri-State, Colonial. The DV, which is primarily a DIII league and the Upstate NY appear to be. However, at least one team from the Upstate NY is leaving that conference as leaving the ACHA would diminish the overall competition level. Do not read into the social media account of the ACCHL, it has no bearing on what teams are actually thinking in the league, I would be surprised if the ACCHL leaves. Further, the ACHA will not count games vs. CHF teams in their rankings, which means many ACHA teams will drop non-conference teams that leave for the CHF, at least in conversations with DII two clubs who are not leaving and I can’t blame them. They are playing for the post-season. If the CHF exists on a DII level, it will be very weak and their national tournament would be akin to weak NIT in basketball. Also, the insurance question is still weighing heavily as the window for the CHF to get affiliate insurance through USA Hockey like the ACHA enjoys has passed. It does not mean teams cannot get USA Hockey insurance, it just means the process would be different. Overall, the timing of this is terrible for teams, most of whom have their schedules set and ice time secured.
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The Upstate has teams leaning CHF however the structure will determine everything. As stated if it is simply D2 and D3 and there is only one league in D2 that moved over there is no point in moving. There is NOTHING set in either direction at this time.
Pokecheck…I can answer that to a degree. The acquisition/utilization of corporate partners is a definite part of the overall CHF picture. It is not the primary key to lowering costs for CHF programs. The primary vehicle for that is the elimination of the additional overheard costs the ACHA saddles programs with. The dollars paid to the ACHA in team fee’s that : pay for European tours for teams and accompanying vacations for “team officials” ($146.00 per team if my memory is accurate) will go away…100K in salaries for leadership will stop…Exec board “travel expenses” will be eliminated…internal financial support for programs that benefit select portions of the organization not the whole will stop as well . There will be an aggressive outreach for Corporate sponsors to help supplement and contribute either with $$ or services to the benefit of the entire CHF programs bottom lines. The CHF sponsorship teams consists of executive professionals. I am not directly involved with that portion of the board activities so I’m a little short on answers for the balance of your question…i.e who, what when, how much…
The CHF has some good ideas and good intentions. However, it was rushed into being after Naples without some key components set (insurance, league fee, the financial backing they claim is coming etc.) Emotions out of Naples got in the way of a logical and timely launch, that has caused some real agita for schools. They can say they have been working on this for a while and there is some truth to it but it just is not ready for showtime yet. While Jay has the best intentions in here, it is clear the CHF is short on a lot of key questions because it was rushed. I would suggest, take your core group of DIII teams and if you add the ACCHL DIII, fine but get out of the DII business for this year. Allow them all teams double register with ACHA for insurance sake. Build your Nashville NIT tournament and get some success this year on that front. The CHF can blast the ACHA for the July 12th date all they want but to some degree it is a healthy date for both leagues. It allows for budgeting before the year starts for both leagues and if teams need to rebuild schedules it gives teams a prayer to be able to do so.
There is also a whole other issue that this has brought to light. DII has gotten to large. You have teams on very different compete levels and very different goals. You have those teams that are really locked and loaded and hunting for bear and teams that are not. Perhaps the CHF can fill that market. In any business plan you need a market niche and perhaps that is the niche they could fill but based on league structures, needs to do so by not splitting leagues. I do not see how any team DII that wants to compete at the highest level would leave the ACHA right now as none of the best teams are leaving. However, the CHF could fill a roll for teams that are not able or wanting to compete at the highest level. When the CHF talks about high regional costs, that is in the eyes of the beholder and what the value is to the program. Some teams would have no interest due to cost and commitment and that is where the CHF comes in. While other teams are pumped to go and test their skills against the best. I would suggest the CHF and ACHA look into this without ripping apart leagues. My guess is the CHF could do this without even needing a partnership with the ACHA and just allow teams to register for the ACHA and create some kind of supplementary registrations for ACHA DII teams that might be interested in post-season play but know they cannot compete with the likes of UNH, Umass, Keene, Penn State, Liberty, Cincinnati, FGCU, Rider, TCNJ, NC State etc. within their own leagues (I know Cincy and FGCU are not in a league). That would actually be in the best interest of collegiate club hockey. What is happening right now, is not. It is putting players who have a finite amount of years of eligibility in the cross fire and could set them up for a lost season of turmoil in terms of schedules.
One bit of information that you need to know. The CHF wasn’t just put together after Naples. This has been in the planning stages for a long time. The people that are in charge of this new league are meticulously organizing this league. They have insurance, website, financials etc all in place.
The organizers of this group are not disgruntled former ACHA members. They have tried to work with the ACHA but the ACHA didnt want to work with them. All the CHF wanted was for the ACHA to be transparent with their financials and board minutes, all of which they have to do by law as they are a non profit. They refused to release the information and they continue to hire personnel using the ACHA dues paying members money.
It is up teams and leagues if they want to leave the ACHA. I dont think that they should be bad mouthed for doing that. The ACHA games with the CHF will count. Thank you to Jay for providing correct information.
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I am aware it has been in the planning stages for a long time. Heck the twitter account was registered in 2012. However, many of the people involved were running for ACHA positions in Naples this year. It seems the timing of the decision to launch was tied to the failure of several proposals in Naples, some of which I agree with, like the voting issue.
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Legally it appears the financials are in order. The 990s are up-to-date on Guidestar. Keep in mind the site runs a year off in posting. So the most recent is 2017, 2018 should be up before the year is out. I went through them all last week after the CHF raised the issue.
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The insurance is not in order or at least not to the level it is with the ACHA. Had they waited to launch and let teams and leagues know throughout this season a few things could have been done or avoided;
a) They cannot get affiliate USA Hockey Insurance for the 2019-2020 season. That application window does not open again until October I believe. Insurance would have to be achieved through alternative routes which have not been cleanly spelled out. If they waited they could have done so prior to launch.
b) Our team never received any kind of communication about the CHF until the week of June 17th. If you look at conference shifts in any level of college sports, they do not happen in June for games that begin in September. Again, by waiting they could have given teams a year to prepare for this. How much better would this launch have been if we knew by March what we were doing next year so we could schedule with that in mind.
c) Schedules for most teams are pretty much set and for most teams were made not even knowing the CHF was out there. Again, this could have been avoided. -
We still have not been told of any kind of league fee, whereas our budget has been set since the spring, once our schedule was finished.
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That’s great that the CHF is going to somehow count ACHA games in their rankings formula. That formula to my knowledge has not been presented other than to say it will be via myhockeyrankings. Further, it will be a difficult mathematical formula to count ACHA opponents who might only play one or two opponents. Not to mention unequivocally the ACHA is not going to do so, which means those teams are going to drop CHF opponents in many cases. Nor would I expect the ACHA teams to do so. Consider this, the NCAA does not and cannot games against Canadian Universities in their pairwise rankings which is why other than when West Point plays the RMA they are listed at exhibition games.
Again, I think their is a place for the CHF but the launch at this time is causing more stress and anxiety than need be. I say they roll with their DIII contingent, make that great and then expand upon that for next year. They have some pioneers set to roll with them, so do it. I think their are a lot of positives but it feels like they opened an ice cream stand in the middle of winter in Upstate NY, timing is everything with a business and this timing needs to be rethought.
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- I am aware it has been in the planning stages for a long time. Heck the twitter account was registered in 2012. However, many of the people involved were running for ACHA positions in Naples this year. It seems the timing of the decision to launch was tied to the failure of several proposals in Naples, some of which I agree with, like the voting issue.
1.The CHF has been part of a discussion for 14 months, but not since 2012 I assure you. It was the last option for a group trying to start a proactive dialogue with an unconcerned, unresponsive and disinterested ACHA EXEC Board. Conference leaders from Florida to Maine came together to try and address concerns and issues with the ACHA Exec board and their leadership of the ACHA. Normal election channels were the next chosen path, only to have the voting criteria “adjusted” two weeks before Naples. The final straw for me was watching the President of the ACHA vote and encourage others to vote to deny every program the opportunity to vote on ACHA issues regardless of their ability (financial, logistical) to attend the national meeting in Naples. - Legally it appears the financials are in order. The 990s are up-to-date on Guidestar. Keep in mind the site runs a year off in posting. So the most recent is 2017, 2018 should be up before the year is out. I went through them all last week after the CHF raised the issue.
2. The concern isn’t the bottom line dollar figure…its who spends the money, what money do they spend,who do they spend it with and are they authorized(by by-law) to spend it. - The insurance is not in order or at least not to the level it is with the ACHA. Had they waited to launch and let teams and leagues know throughout this season a few things could have been done or avoided;
3. Per Ashley Bevin USAH Adult Hockey chief and surprisingly a new ACHA board member. CHF has access to USAH insurance.likely a different path than ACHA but the USAH is determining the processes for both organizations currently.
a) They cannot get affiliate USA Hockey Insurance for the 2019-2020 season. That application window does not open again until October I believe. Insurance would have to be achieved through alternative routes which have not been cleanly spelled out. If they waited they could have done so prior to launch.
a. Maybe…CHF has already applied for Affiliate membership. If they get it depends on which USAH official you speak to.
b) Our team never received any kind of communication about the CHF until the week of June 17th. If you look at conference shifts in any level of college sports, they do not happen in June for games that begin in September. Again, by waiting they could have given teams a year to prepare for this. How much better would this launch have been if we knew by March what we were doing next year so we could schedule with that in mind.
b.Conference leadership has been irregular in getting the info out.We spoke to 75% of D2 and D3 conferences with information within a week of Naples.
c) Schedules for most teams are pretty much set and for most teams were made not even knowing the CHF was out there. Again, this could have been avoided.
c. Anytime there is change scheduling and operational issues will arise. We felt we needed to pursue every standard, ACHA policy angle for change before we stepped away from the ACHA. - We still have not been told of any kind of league fee, whereas our budget has been set since the spring, once our schedule was finished.
4.This has been out there but $1700/team…less if we can acquire the appropriate sponsorship monies. - That’s great that the CHF is going to somehow count ACHA games in their rankings formula. That formula to my knowledge has not been presented other than to say it will be via myhockeyrankings. Further, it will be a difficult mathematical formula to count ACHA opponents who might only play one or two opponents. Not to mention unequivocally the ACHA is not going to do so, which means those teams are going to drop CHF opponents in many cases. Nor would I expect the ACHA teams to do so. Consider this, the NCAA does not and cannot games against Canadian Universities in their pairwise rankings which is why other than when West Point plays the RMA they are listed at exhibition games.
5. MyHockeyRankings says they can do it…they are the best so I’ll beleive them…ultimately the “ranking” element in this is not the only issue. The CHF wants to maintain and secure everyones natural and traditional rivalry opponents. Those games and traditions make the college hockey experience.It doesn’t appear the ACHA feels the same, that’s their prerogative and an indication of what they value.
My point here is this. This isn’t about making a superleague (see ACHA D1 departure for that)…it isn’t about hate for the ACHA. It isn’t about hurting the ACHA. The CHF is about making the college hockey experience better for all involved. We say “players first” and we mean it. Is this year and next year going to be difficult ,sure it is change always is. We aren’t out soliciting, selling this CHF thing. Its the byproduct of people who feel the existing model has issues, the drivers of that model are blind or unwilling to change for the better of all, every player, every program, every conference. The CHF will happen this coming season working towards a better college club hockey world for everyone.
It would be great if I could get some clarification on the scheduling nightmare that has begun. I am a student club president for my team and I am also in charge of our scheduling. We are staying in the ACHA as our league voted on it. With what it looks like we could have up to 6 games vs CHF teams. I’m sure a lot of schedulers have similar concerns and questions.
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Will ACHA teams officially be allowed to play CHF teams as long as the ACHA receives a sealed USAH certified roster of that specific CHF team? (I know the ACHA was discouraging it in emails it sounded like) If not, should i be canceling these games and finding new ACHA opponents?
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Will these games count towards ACHA rankings? Or is this information unknown.
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Is there a certain date or time frame to expect a list of final ACHA or CHF teams? I’d expect it to be after July 12th. This info is crucial so ice time can be reserved and budgets can be set.
WE JUST WANT TO BE ABLE TO PLAY TEAMS IN BOTH LEAGUES. UGH (as long as they are USAH registered of course)
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They CANNOT prohibit you from playing anyone (assuming the insurance is aligned). Now will those games count towards rankings? I can almost guarantee a no (at least from the ACHA).
Look at the DVCHC from last year. Salisbury operated two teams- one was ACHA D3, the other was non-ACHA yet the played in the same “league” (divisions different) as the non-ACHA team played a regular schedule vs ACHA teams with ZERO issues. The games did not count for rankings of course, but a regular schedule was played.
I think it comes down to do those six games impact your ACHA games requirement. If you can afford to add a few CHF games then who really cares as long as everything lines up.
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Preface: My program and conference unanimously voted to remain in the ACHA for 2019/20. Our conference also unanimously voted to revisit the discussion again for 2020/21.
I think The CHF is on to something. They have tabled a viable option that is very intriguing to programs like ours. (Our regional location, budget, school support, etc.) It may not be the best option for everyone, but options themselves are good to have. I hope the CHF thrives in 2019-20.
There is a lot the ACHA could improve upon by simply empowering well informed, proactive representatives from EACH faction of their membership and allowing them to decide what is most beneficial for their faction. I think that is the axiom of the CHF. I think the CHF is working towards that, and by creating a direct competitor, forcing the ACHA to do so as well.
Just my thoughts tho, full disclosure I am a few bourbons deep at this point in the day. Happy 4th!
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