ACHA versus CHF

I am the coach of an ACHA Division 1 team that gets no funding, administrative help, or preferential treatment through admissions. I will be one of the first to tell you that the ACHA is not perfect and I don’t agree with a lot of what has happened the last few years, but to characterize the meetings as “being run by good old boys in D1” is a joke.

Before all this started, the ACHA had over 500 teams. There were 60 teams in D1 (we just added 12 teams and created a new auto bid but it is what it is). The last 5 years, we have had roughly 30-35 voting members in the D1 meetings. How can 35 votes, which I promise you are never in unison, be the deciding factor in an organization of 500 members, when over 100 attend the meetings each year?

If you tell me that most other teams can’t make it to Naples, I would respond and say that again, we get no funding from the school… we stay in the same hotel chain all year long to accrue points to stay for free in Naples. Whoever flies takes the cheapest flight available within 2-3 hours of Naples and Priceline’s a rental car for $20 per day. We take these costs into account when we make our budget for the year. There have been instances of us flying in on Friday and out on Saturday, but it was important to us to have someone at the meeting. The total cost is usually somewhere around $500-$600, and could easily be offset by a team of 20-30 players. To not do so, in my opinion, isn’t the fault of the ACHA, but of the individual teams in question. It took more than the 35 D1 teams to vote down the absentee ballot proposal this year, and that seems to be a major dividing factor here.

And to the comment that this is “club hockey” … yes, it is. But myself and MOST (not all) view the ACHA (especially D1) as a viable alternative to NCAA D3 schools, and sell it to players as such. And whether it’s staying close to home, wanting to go to a big school, or a consideration of majors, we land players with NCAA options on a semi-regular basis. With that in mind, there have been a few incidents over the past few seasons that give the entire ACHA a black eye, and typically have come from the lower divisions. Whether it’s the goalie from Virginia drinking a beer on the ice, or the kid from wherever this year vaping in the penalty box, that makes the rest of the ACHA look like a joke. If teams with players like that are leaving, I’m all for it.

Finally, the promises coming out of the CHF sound a lot like what was coming from the former Executive Director is the ACHA. Most “sponsorships” obtained the last few years have brought in zero revenue, just discounts. He made grand promises about sponsors, and told me and a few other coaches that the Dallas Stars were offering $250k for travel reimbursement to Nationals this past year. When the Dallas contingent presented in the general session in 2018, they very clearly had no idea about this “promise” they had made. I would caution everyone to be very careful about believing or trusting someone with a track record over the last 3 years like his. But maybe that’s just me.

2 Likes

Columbo as another coach for an ACHA Division 1 Team (and over a decade of coaching in the ACHA) that gets no funding, administrative help, or preferential treatment through admissions.

Our program feels that it is unfair to have those travel expenses for coaches to Naples, FL to be paid for / offset by the players on the team. As a staff of 100% volunteers we will not add unneeded financial burdens on our college students, just because the ACHA is unwilling to change there outdated practices and bylaws.

The ACHA needs to figure out a solution to the underlying issue here, there needs to be a way in which every team can be heard and that every program gets an equal vote. It shouldn’t matter whether teams can afford, or can not afford or they just choose not to send a representative to the National Convention in FL.

And a side note the fact that Nationals this past year and next year are in Dallas / Frisco is a joke.

Every team no matter the level of play deserves the right to have their voices heard and their votes counted. Just because we cant make it to Florida doesn’t mean we don’t care. We sacrifice a lot for these players because we love our teams, the players (past, current, and future) and the sport. Notice I left out the ACHA, if the CHF was a realistic option for the D1 level we would have some serious conversations.

LET EVERY TEAMS VOICE BE HEARD, JUST NOT A FEW.

How do you think we ended up in Dallas? It wasn’t the ACHA board, but rather one man. The same man who was proposing Tampa, Florida as another option. And we were supposed to be in Dallas for 4 years and the board got it reduced to 2.

I’ve heard the argument that this man didn’t sign an agreement, only a letter of intent… but to do that and try and use it as a bargaining chip or not have the intention of following through seems incredibly morally and ethically irresponsible to me. And guess what college league this man is running now?

As for the meetings in Naples, I understand it’s not the most convenient location. We have sent players to the meetings before and had a discussion on how we would like to vote as a program. It’s not ideal, but again we view it as an integral cost of the season. Ideally, they would be somewhere much easier to get to for the majority of the membership, but it is what it is for now. I’ve heard in the next 2-3 years that location will no longer be available.

Strictly from a selfish perspective, I very much enjoy getting the chance to hear NHL and NCAA coaches talk about coaching and running their programs, and honestly I’ve had a handful of players over the years tell me how much they think I’ve grown as a coach. I’d say my program has benefitted from that growth.

In my opinion, one HUGE problem with the ACHA in general is the transient nature to a lot of programs and coaches. Guys come in for a year or two, try and make massive changes that sound great in theory but are much more difficult in practice or that benefit only their program and a handful of others and then they’re gone. There’s very little consideration given to what might be best for the Division as a whole.

When you have 500 teams with a large variance in school involvement, funding, governing structure, etc, you’re never going to be able to make everyone happy. The ACHA, for its many faults, does a decent job for a group largely run by volunteers.

Not sure what the CHE is doing, but U Cal and Robert Morris both have national championships. But also, with this logic, the ACHA only needs like 10-20 teams lol

Interesting turn of events here, it’s clear the ACHA doesn’t want competition. Club lax has two associations, way less dysfunction imo.

Plenty of proven companies that do conference calls with voting, muting etc that could be done in the office or dorm room and follow the Roberts rules without spending $20-40 a kid so coach joe can wear flops, hit the links, and or be sober enough to vote. ACHA does the Naples tour instead of moving it around. Naples is not easy to get too, Vegas is the easiest and rooms are much cheaper but the golfing isn’t as good.

I do love the “preferred admissions argument”, the counter argument should be will xyz college be open in 5 years? Good luck with that alumni base when you’re the oldest alum

Hs kids should look at the schools financial grades before selecting them. Ask a northeast president their biggest fear, enrollment cliff coming due to low birth rates. schools fighting over the same kids. Alaska just gutted their universities, if you think Alaska is alone, I’ll check back with you in a few years, see if the club hockey budget didn’t get gutted.

Some powerhouse ACHA schools won’t be open in 5 years, moody credit rating, discounted tuition, and ACHA trophies won’t keep the doors open unfortunately.

The Frisco conversation is an interesting one, I can’t speak to how it got there but having gone there this past year, we enjoyed the area, flights in and out were easy and weather was great, we just forgot to pack our d-zone play for the trip, which was problematic. Actually, all the tournaments I have been involved in, in my limited time have been well run. Regionals at Liberty were outstanding and the ACCHL tournament at Winston-Salem this year was top notch. All the people who ran them are to be commended from my viewpoint. Tournaments of that size are not easy to run. Additionally, while going CHF is not the right fit for us, the Nashville tournament looks like it will be well done too. I do think the pool play format for ACHA D2 and D3 could be re-thought in that only the top team goes, which left to many meaningless games on the last pool play day, maybe a wildcard or something along those lines.

I think we have veered off course here a bit, myself included. Getting back to viewpoints and about what are the right choices for individual programs be it CHF or ACHA, information distribution etc.

ACHA needs to be figure out a way for EVERY TEAMS VOICE BE HEARD, JUST NOT A FEW AT THE CONVENTION.

If about 20% of the entire ACHA body can attend something needs to be changed. We all know changes are needed, the ACHA needs to figure it out.

As for ClubHockeyCoach, weather shouldn’t be a deciding factor for a location. We have been there and other places for nationals and as they all have positives and negatives, Frisco was by far the worst from hosting hockey tournament stand point.

Hotels (we talked to many) while they are nice had no idea what hockey is or the needs of an athletic team are.

The cost of the trip should be the main factor, hotel costs way above what we have paid on our trips during the year, and the flight costs and distance from the airport are not ideal. This years overall cost was 4x the cost as in previous years.

The small locker rooms, shared showers and rest rooms, lack of any type of hockey support at the arena (pro-shop, skate sharpening, etc.), difficulty of actually finding the athletic trainers (either duty or being told by an athletic trainer my shift doesn’t start for 10 minutes I cant help you).

So I have been a coach in the ACHA for 12 years at the D3 level and my program is what most would term as a bottom-feeder program. I am alright with that. I am fine giving my players a good hockey experience and knowing most of my players are now doctors, engineers, accountants, etc. I have gone to Naples every year for the first 5/6 years but moved to every other year. It does become more of a vacation for most and Saturday rolls around it ends up being a bitch fest. I did go this past year because of this whole CHF vs ACHA thing. I can tell you I took a couple things out of the meeting.

First - There was 104 voters there even though more coaches in attendance that rep the same program. This is where the first argument occurred about what constitutes a quorum. The little guy to the right of the room that was talking about terms and attorney lingo way above my pay grade. Per our bylaws, is it 75% of the voters in the room or 75% of the entire body of the ACHA. It was decide 75% of the voters in the room, so lets start with we are accepting the fact that less than 20% of the entire ACHA body are going to make the decisions. The votes were very heavy D1 and Michigan area schools vs the rest. The votes needed a 75% approval to change the rules resulting in 80 votes to change the voting system because it was a policy change. In theory the 50 or so D1/Michigan coaches by voting against the remaining coaches controlled the vote because we could not reach the 80 votes. So in theory these 50 or so coaches made the decision for over 500 teams. Again 10% of the body were making decisions for everyone. Everyone paid the same dues, respective to your Division but not everyone gets to vote.

Second - As the coach from Stonybrook asked: “What is the reason the national tournament was in Texas and not back in Columbus?” Well, lets look at the financials of those 2 tournaments. In Columbus it cost the ACHA roughly $70K to hold the tournament. Having it in Texas the ACHA actually make $6K and that was in large part because of a development grant that was given to the ACHA, so you are talking about a 75K swing (somewhere in that area). The problem with the ACHA, and as always, instead of lowering dues, giving money back to the teams, offsetting costs the ACHA decided to just spend the money on useless things. Go through the line items and tell me what was really necessary and was was just things not needed but since they had the money, the bought it anyways.

Lastly, looking at the financials what a waste of money going to Naples is. When your treasurer openly states that a pot of coffee at that Naples resort costs $25, that is a problem. The national conference costs over 40K. C’mon. In a world where cost of schools are going up, funding for programs by their respective universities is going down both of which are driving up players dues, shouldn’t we be a little better aimed with the dues each team is paying. I have said this for years, why are we sending teams to Europe? Europe is coming here. Are we attracting that many European players because of this program? Why are we holding 40K national conferences? Why are we paying all of these stipends and travel expense for these people? I thought stipends were to help offset costs for travel and other related expenses. They are taking stipends as a check and then still getting travel expenses paid. Almost 20% of the budget is on ACHA Board members stipends/travel expenses.And while we are at it, lets just throw in 2 more board members.

I don’t get it but at this point I am just tired of the back and forth. Listen, CHF and ACHA just have different points of views. Teams will decide which governing body fits best for them. If the ACHA thinks they are superior, well here is the first clap for you from me, congrats. If these kids are not playing NCAA D1, odds are I will see your players in men’s league right next to mine. And after that we all get to play in the 40+ leagues. As I tell my recruits, pick your school first and if they have hockey, play for that team. If they don’t have a team, be the first to start one, but hockey is always second to your education.

2 Likes

100% correct and ACHA let myhockeyrankings use ACHA vs CHF games in their rankings.

This is becoming a back and forth pissing match and the only people that are going to be hurt are the players you are supposedly supporting.

LET EVERYONE’S VOICE BE HEARD!!!

Best post I’ve seen.

Ironically, 2 schools in that state, I doubt will be around in 5 years.

Any reason why the voting can’t be online?

Why can’t divisions be capped at 60? Ncaa D1 is at 60, who cares if you win a division 7 championship? Serve more teams with different philosophies. There are a lot of different programs with unlimited funding or have enough teams around them to keep costs low with $50/hr ice rates vs $350/hr and nearest opponent is hours away not minutes.

ACHA got too big imo with their spending and no care of how much costs are because they get free travel and a stipend provided by the teams.

CHF is making a mistake with a large national tournament. Take the top 8 have elite programs play that you can sell to the better teams in the future then have 16 team tournament with auto bids, etc. allow more opportunities.

2 Likes

ACHA just posted their teams for the 19-20 year.

http://achahockey.org/view/achahockey/acha-hockey-news/news_523414

CHF does not have a list yet?

Who is missing?

What insurance do Canadian schools use?

What is going on? Press release from ACHA M3 twitter/USA Hockey:

Friday, July 19, 2019
CHF (College Hockey Federation)
Via email
In response to recent false public statements made by CHF (College Hockey Federation) about being sanctioned by USA Hockey. CHF is not sanctioned by USA Hockey and is not a member of USA Hockey or USA Hockey’s Southeastern District. The CHF does not have USA Hockey’s permission to use the USA Hockey logo in any manner on any CHF materials, websites, social media, etc.
We’ve also connected with our NHL partners at the Nashville Predators. The Predators notified us that they are in no way affiliated with the CHF and you will most likely be hearing from them shortly about the illegal use of their name and logo.
The ACHA is the only non-NCAA college hockey partner recognized by USA Hockey. We’ve had an extremely positive partnership between USA Hockey and ACHA since 1997. We are currently under a 5-year contract with every intention of working toward renewing another long-term contract. Any statement to the contrary is completely false.
Should you have any questions regarding USA Hockey’s registration process please refer to the letter dated June 15, 2019 or www.usahockey.com.
CHF must remove USA Hockey’s marks and false statements about the CHF being sanctioned and recognized by USA Hockey from their materials, websites, social media platforms, etc. immediately. Failing to make these timely adjustments and if any continued misstatements, mischaracterizations and falsehoods by CHF operators, consultants, etc. continue, USA Hockey’s next step will involve legal action.
Thank you,
Ashley Bevan, Senior Director

Is Ashley Representing USAHockey or ACHA?

Why is USAHockey speaking on behalf of a NHL team?

-jwilson

2 Likes

It seems as if Ashley Bevan has a conflict of interest in regards to this. He was one of the two new ACHA board just put on the board with no input from the membership. The CHF does have insurance and is still having their national tournament with the blessings of the Predators. Maybe Mr. Bevens should tell us why he is blocking the CHF from USA hockey insurance. You would think that he would have more important things to do with his two jobs. Personally I think the ACHA is starting to realize that the CHF is a reality and is starting to panic a bit. The two organizations can coexist when the ACHA realizes that the CHF is going to offer something that the ACHA doesnt

Will CHF go the legal route? I have some suggestions/strategies and questions to ask if that happens. Why can’t they register as adult teams? Who cares if the team is called the bulldogs instead of xyz college?

I think the CHF needs to reply in some form.

Hello All…Just a short comment about the latest scare letter. The CHF will have some formal reply but
I’m a little hand tied regarding detail due to the legalese back and forth but…Letter was from ACHA board member (as stated above) who also is a USAH officer…conflict? You’ll need to be the judge of that…CHF dual membership program will be out later today…expect teams and conferences to take advantage of it much to the ACHA’s chagrin…CHF is not an affiliate with USAH but all players will be able to to register and have USAH insurance ( that dreaded 6/15 letter-Ashley said so!) despite what ACHA spin is out there. CHF national tournament is set for Nashville in conjunction with the Nashville Preds organization…no affiliation but a partnership to put on the tourney…we were a bit aggressive putting logo’s (USAH and Preds) out there without formal blessing and have been sufficiently chastised by the latest ACHA board member for it. End of day…CHF is right where it was before the scare letter and will be regardless of what the ACHA spins.

Does anyone have any information on what ranking system the ACHA plans to use for M2 and M3 this year?

I spoke with a source earlier this week that indicated the ACHA was planning on returning to the MyHockeyRankings this year. However, the ACHA apparently breached their contract with MHR last year when they switched to the USHSHO ranking system. I heard MHR told the ACHA to take a hike when they asked about returning this year.

Personally, I thought the USHSHO rankings were terrible for M2 and M3 last year with way too much emphasis on win percentage and not nearly enough weight given to AGD and SoS. There is also a rumor going around that the USHSHO contract was a shady backroom deal made to throw some money towards a friend or relative of an ACHA board member. Conspiracy theories aside, I was looking forward to a return to MHR. The bylaws do not specify a ranking system and just say that it needs to be done “by computer.” Does anyone know where this stands? Were there any votes on the subject in Naples?

I think the dual membership is a great idea!